Curse

netniwk · Apr 12, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamecube187

*GW2 Without Racial Abilities
Player wants to be a caster with elemental powers. They also want to be a Charr. They make a Charr Ele. Now they have a lot of energy, and spells that cost so much energy that it's best if the ele uses those spells instead of a (insert any other class here) using those spells. The player is happy.

*GW2 With Racial Abilities
Player wants to be a caster with elemental powers, again. They also want to be a charr, again. The charr have +10% attack speed and +10% physical damage, but cast spells 10% slower and have -10% max energy. They make a Charr Ele. Now it is the same as above, except ele's have quite a few slow casting spells and now cast even slower because of their race. They also have less energy for those high energy spells. They find out that (insert random non-charr race here) can cast spells 10% faster and has +10% max energy and -10% attack speed and -10% physical damage, but that is the race that the player dislikes the most. Now the player has to either make a race that they don't like, not play ele, or just continue playing their Charr Ele and be at a huge disadvantage. No matter what, player is unhappy, or at least not nearly as happy as they could have been without Racial Abilities.

That sure seemsd like a pretty big difference to me....

and the proof they are going to give such idiotic racials is where?

arcanemacabre · Apr 12, 2007, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by netniwk

and the proof they are going to give such idiotic racials is where?

Exactly. I'm all for differences in races, but not stupid crap like that.

Idea:

Charr - Attack and cast faster depending on the amount of damage sustained. So, effectively, they get "enraged" as they take damage. After all, the Charr were not only fighters, but casters, too.

Norn - Heatlh bonus. They're big. This can help anyone, fighter or caster.

Sylvari - Agility, they can naturally dodge/evade. This can help anyone.

etc...

All this needs is proper balance, which can come in time, with updates, as it does now. I have no problem with something like this. They just need to find "bonuses" that can help all classes in some way, that way there are no, or little, discriminations. Sure, some builds will be better with say, more health, or faster attacking/casting, but overall, if balanced, they would be the same kind of bonus.

[KotL]Mjolnir · Apr 12, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Exactly. I'm all for differences in races, but not stupid crap like that.

Idea:

Charr - Attack and cast faster depending on the amount of damage sustained. So, effectively, they get "enraged" as they take damage. After all, the Charr were not only fighters, but casters, too.

Norn - Heatlh bonus. They're big. This can help anyone, fighter or caster.

Sylvari - Agility, they can naturally dodge/evade. This can help anyone.

etc...

All this needs is proper balance, which can come in time, with updates, as it does now. I have no problem with something like this. They just need to find "bonuses" that can help all classes in some way, that way there are no, or little, discriminations. Sure, some builds will be better with say, more health, or faster attacking/casting, but overall, if balanced, they would be the same kind of bonus.

In my opinion to keep it simple, balanced, and faithful to GW1 then all you need is a Racial attribute i.e. like strength, expertise and so on. Tie all the unique attribute of each race to a set of skills:

- Norn for example could have there shape shifting spell along with unique attacks that can only be used in that form.

- Char could be a mixture of melee buffs and fire magic styles spells

- Sylvari as you said could have agility buffs amongst other things

- Asura (if it turns out there crafters of magic and weapons) perhaps could craft weapons during battle much like ritualist weapon spells.

Now this would look like you have to pick a specific race for your class but if you balance out everything and make Humans a class that can do everything then theres something for everyone.

mazik · Apr 12, 2007, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamecube187

Hmmmm, yes, and more variety is definitely going to make it like every other game that has ever existed so far....

Also, tell me one game, just one, that lets you be a Charr or a Asura. Think of any? Any at all? And yet you say that it's copying, when no other game even has Charr or Asura (besides GW1 that is

).

Exactly. Just because they use a concept that happens to be in other MMORPG's doesn't mean they are a clone. It's like saying Halo is a clone of half-life because, hey, their both FPS and they both have guns....that means someone sold out, right? It's not even like they're putting in Nightelves or soemthing. Ya they have races like WoW but the races we will have aren't the same! (Not even close, really). We have Charr and Asura....where have you ever seen Charr or asura before Guild Wars? Hmm? They weren't in WoW you say? You say it's unique to Guild Wars?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamecube187

Well, accually, yes. If they give races special abilities, then it will be like this

*GW2 Without Racial Abilities
Player wants to be a caster with elemental powers. They also want to be a Charr. They make a Charr Ele. Now they have a lot of energy, and spells that cost so much energy that it's best if the ele uses those spells instead of a (insert any other class here) using those spells. The player is happy.

*GW2 With Racial Abilities
Player wants to be a caster with elemental powers, again. They also want to be a charr, again. The charr have +10% attack speed and +10% physical damage, but cast spells 10% slower and have -10% max energy. They make a Charr Ele. Now it is the same as above, except ele's have quite a few slow casting spells and now cast even slower because of their race. They also have less energy for those high energy spells. They find out that (insert random non-charr race here) can cast spells 10% faster and has +10% max energy and -10% attack speed and -10% physical damage, but that is the race that the player dislikes the most. Now the player has to either make a race that they don't like, not play ele, or just continue playing their Charr Ele and be at a huge disadvantage. No matter what, player is unhappy, or at least not nearly as happy as they could have been without Racial Abilities.

That sure seemsd like a pretty big difference to me....

And once again, how do you know any of that? Why do people seem to think A-Net's only goal in making Guild Wars 2 is to make it as unbalanced as humanly possible? Wait until we have more information and stop making dumb assumptions about some weird, un balancing racial attribute that you, in no way, no exsists, will exsist or was even thought of being made exsistant.

Craywulf · Apr 14, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

As someone already mentioned the Charr are vulerable to fire. I'm curious how that would effect them as playable race. At first I thought if ArenaNet is going to make the races playable they should be purely aesthetic, but then I realized it wouldn't be true to the current game mechanics where certain races/monsters are vulerable to certain types of attacks.

So I think they should keep those attributes as long as they are negatives. Such as being vulanable to Cold, Dark or Fire damage. There shouldn't be any bonuses for choosing one race over another. If a Charr is vulerable to fire then they would likely need a fire-resistant Insignia/Rune for whatever armor they decide to wear in order to offset the penalty.

One other idea that I thought might be interesting to introduce is creating bonus/negative attribute to height and weight of the characters. Of course we run the risk of having formulic builds, but if they make it so the attribute is minor or can be countered in other ways. Such as player creating a Charr who is at least 10ft and his body width be twice its normal girth (in perspective to the game's surroundings) and the height gives +1 in strength (which effects Warrior profession) and its wide body girth gives it a 25% slower attack/movement speed.

I realize that these kinda things will invite more of one type of build, but even today there are still "flavor of the month" builds.

Steps Ascending · Apr 14, 2007, 02:18 AM // 02:18

in fact the new races could make the game more interesting if ANet is able to avoid the "RaceX=ClassX" trap.

But am I the only one to be sure they WILL fall in that trap.

The other mistake they could do would be to make human the "no weakness/no strenght" race. MMOs have prooved that a spesialized race is better than a "no weakness/no strenght" race.

Tylos Angelheart · Apr 14, 2007, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Could go two ways realy realy well or really really badly....However GW1 has set the world and the creatures in it to just add more world for a sequel miht not be enough. With the addition of new races this can add more depth to the world, or it could just end up being more like WoW than GW... either way I don't think we are going to be let down so far I i personally havent been dissapointed with the game developments.

Craywulf · Apr 14, 2007, 08:07 AM // 08:07

I think If they make playable races purely aesthetic, what happens when a player attacks a NPC Charr and assumes its not vulnerable to fire (when infact the NPCs are vulnerable). It becomes a case of distinguishing PvP races with no inherent attributes and PvE NPCs that do have attributes.

This kinda of unbalance is why I would encourage playable races to have the same attribute bonues their NPCs counterparts have, so that PvP and PvE become more seamless in terms of builds and tactics.

Domino · Apr 14, 2007, 08:13 AM // 08:13

It's already been said in interviews that races will have specific abilities and/or skills.

stop whining about it - if you don't like it, play GW1 until they close the servers for all I care.

I'll take my races thank you very much.

Catsohori · Apr 14, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

You know what is quiet funny, I found that playing different classes for the different races on WoW didn't hamper my playing style. Yes I played an undead caster, but you know what is interesting.

Sure Gnomes did have higher stats when it came to intelligence, but then why not make them a warrior? That's a warrior that can learn quicker on his/her weapon styles and then can switch between multiple fighting styles at once. Yes this Warrior would have lower life but they in effect then become a good Damage Dealer because their efficiency in weapons is increased with quicker skill gain.

You guys need to think outside the box, Norns get a werebear form. So I play a Caster to switches to Werebear to incrase my health as I cast. That increases my odds of staying alive while Casting. Charr with low Casting? No matter I still most likely do more Melee damage outright if they are strength increase race. Meaning you just play a more Melee intensive fighting style.

xBakox · Apr 14, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

[quote]
In my opinion to keep it simple, balanced, and faithful to GW1 then all you need is a Racial attribute i.e. like strength, expertise and so on. Tie all the unique attribute of each race to a set of skills:

- Norn for example could have there shape shifting spell along with unique attacks that can only be used in that form.

- Char could be a mixture of melee buffs and fire magic styles spells

- Sylvari as you said could have agility buffs amongst other things

- Asura (if it turns out there crafters of magic and weapons) perhaps could craft weapons during battle much like ritualist weapon spells.

Now this would look like you have to pick a specific race for your class but if you balance out everything and make Humans a class that can do everything then theres something for everyone.[quote]

Again, this is the same exact problem people don't want. Having the examples you said would make Charr warriors and fire eles the only "good" ones, and all other warriors/fire eles suck. And who wouldn't be a Sylvari monk?

Quote:

Exactly. I'm all for differences in races, but not stupid crap like that.

Idea:

Charr - Attack and cast faster depending on the amount of damage sustained. So, effectively, they get "enraged" as they take damage. After all, the Charr were not only fighters, but casters, too.

Norn - Heatlh bonus. They're big. This can help anyone, fighter or caster.

Sylvari - Agility, they can naturally dodge/evade. This can help anyone.

etc...

All this needs is proper balance, which can come in time, with updates, as it does now. I have no problem with something like this. They just need to find "bonuses" that can help all classes in some way, that way there are no, or little, discriminations. Sure, some builds will be better with say, more health, or faster attacking/casting, but overall, if balanced, they would be the same kind of bonus.

I do like this idea better, especially the enraged part. IMO they just need to give races a primary attribute with no inherent effects that would make it better as a class then others. This attribute could have 5-10 skills to keep it simple. As long as there are no "charr get +10% AP" or something I'm ok with it.

Redfeather1975 · Apr 14, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

We were talking about how the racial skills will be just like having a third profession choice.
So you can be N/W/Mo or C/W/Mo
That kinda thing.

I personally think it's cool and will probably make a norn caster class. Possibly a healer.
I think it'll be very interesting to play a wereform healer.

Or a sylvani healer, that would be like a druid.

VegJed · Apr 15, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Meh, I like the idea of races, mainly because, when I make a human, I feel a need to make him look like me (I've been doing this since I played Runescape, an MMO that...omg!!...is free to play and only allows human characters!!!! GW is a Runescape clone!!!!!) This desire to play myself makes me always get annoyed when my facial hair automatically matches my hair color, which just isn't the case (I'm naturally blond, but my beard is naturally red). Meanwhile, with different races, I figure I can't make him look like me, so why try? Instead, I try to create the sickest looking character ever (hmm, maybe I'm subconsciously a narcissist, and that's why with human only games, I base the character on myself, thinking that's the best a human will look).

Also, its obvious that racial differences will be more than cosmetic, otherwise I wouldn't be able to be a bear. I wanna be a $#@%in bear! Although, hopefully the game is balanced enough that I can be a spellusing shapeshifter, whereas when I used a WoW free trial and played a tauren druid, I found out that shapeshifter druid = tank (and people call Guild Wars Build Wars. What about World of Buildcraft?)

BlackSephir · Apr 15, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

@Topic

GW2 doesn't need races
Just like people play GW even if they would like to play as dwarf or smth

Races in GW2 will just make it to sell better